Our Talk with Frank Turner: Full Transcript
The Paramount - Huntington, NY
Interview with Frank Turner by Cait Elizabeth and Travis Ryan
May 11th, 2019
“It’s not every day that you get the chance to meet a rockstar, let alone get a chance to sit and chat. Frank Turner started as frontman for post-hardcore band Million Dead before departing into a highly successful acoustic based folk-punk career. He has written a few books, released a slew of albums, and won the hearts of millions.
Frank Turner was incredibly generous with his time and conversation. We hope this behind the scenes to an incredible career can give some insight into touring life for ambitious musicians. ”
CE: We really need to know—When are we expecting a new Möngöl Hörde album?
FT: Oh! Okay, well, there’s a new Möngöl Hörde EP, that’s finished. It’s like, it’s kind of…two and a half songs. It’ll be apparent what I mean by that soon. But that’s coming soon, and actually, we are—I mean I haven’t really told anybody this, but there’s not really any reason why I shouldn’t have, but hey, here’s an exclusive: We are doing a Möngöl Hörde American tour this year.
CE: Very cool.
TR: Yes.
FT: Yes, I can’t tell you more about that; and it’s not going to be a particularly long one. The problem with Möngöl Hörde is—There’s two problems with Möngöl Hörde. First of all, me and Matt are quite busy (laughs) and, shockingly, Ben, our drummer, has a real job! And has to get holiday from work to tour and all that sort of shit, and you know, has a wife who wants to go on holiday with him as well, and it’s just kind of like “Ugh, you fuckin’ loser!” I’m kidding.
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CE: How on Earth are you so accessible to everybody? How do you manage to email, Twitter, and everything else? Because we’re all blown away.
FT: This isn’t quite the answer to the ‘how’ question as it is to the ‘why’ question, which is just that like, I’m not really interested in being removed from my audience, is one way of putting it. The other thing is, when I was 16 I emailed Henry Rollins and Guy Picciotto and they both emailed me back, and I’m still telling that story 21 years later. Do you know what I mean? I don’t answer 100% of emails, like if people are being shitty, which happens obviously, I just delete whatever. But you know, it just seems like a good thing to do. Interesting that you mention Twitter in that; I have as of the start of this year basically stopped reading Twitter. I use it to post stuff, which I think is cool, like showtimes or whatever, I think it’s useful as a communication tool. But it just occurred to me that me reading my mentions on Twitter was doing nothing good for me. Without making this overly heavy, I think it was really not good for my mental health. It’s like me trying to listen in to every single conversation in every single bar in the entire fuckin’ world in case somebody mentions my name. It’s like, it’s not a particularly healthy thing to do. This is a bit of a line, I know, but like, the thing I think about is just like there’s shit written on me on cubicles of toilets in bars I don’t visit that I don’t need to read. Do you know what I mean? It’s just whatever, man. Thom Yorke’s―cause Nigel, our drummer, grew up with the Radiohead guys, and apparently Thom Yorke says, ”You don’t read your press, you weigh it.” Which I think is quite cool. But yeah I mean fuckin’ whatever. I think it’s a gesture in some ways, the email thing, and like trying to hang out at shows when I can, and all the rest of it. There’s a certain kind of aristocracy to the traditional rock n’ roll, ya know, rock star drives in a limo, drives to the hotel in the private jet. It smells of Marie Antoinette to me in a way that I don’t like very much.
CE: Putting above the people.
FT: Yeah, and it’s just, it’s a bit like, music’s a conversation, and if it’s not a conversation between equals then I’m not that interested in it.
CE: I have to say, of all the musicians I’ve ever listened to, your work is the only [work] I’ve come across [where it’s like] oh, he’s one of us!
FT: Well thank you.
CE: You feel like you’d be part of our friend group.
FT: Yeah, I mean there was―the downside of it, if there is even a downside, but like a few years ago, Q Magazine did a feature on me and their headline was like ‘The People’s Punk’ or whatever. And it’s just like really man? It’s like, I don’t want to be standing here being like, “I am the man of the people!”
TR: It’s defeating the purpose when it’s putting it in that kind of spotlight.
FT: Yeah, and the point is more just that I’m a normal person who happens to play music, and I’m fine with having the spotlight on me when I’m on stage doing my thing. The minute I’m not doing that, I don’t consider myself any different from anybody else.
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CE: How was the transition between playing punk rock exclusively and doing your own thing?
TR: Especially hardcore punk.
FT: The thing about all of that is that like, it was an increasingly long time ago now. And obviously, you know, I can remember lots of it, and I wrote quite a lot of it down for the first book I did and all the rest of it; it increasingly feels like it sort of happened to somebody else, almost, do you know what I mean? So funny thing about being into tattoos―do you [Cait] have tattoos?
CE: I don’t. My first is gonna be lyrics from [Travis’s] band, which are on the back of my shirt.
FT: Excellent. There’s something about―because of the premise and everything, when I see photos of myself before I got my hands tattooed or whatever I’m like, “Who is that guy?”
TR: It was always kind of there in your mind, you always kind of pictured yourself and you had those plans, so when you see yourself in those pictures before you actually enacted the ideas―
FT: Just looks like a stranger, almost, you know. One of the funny things about it is that like, at the time I remember feeling like I had a plan, and everybody thought I was out of my fuckin’ mind. I’m not trying to like, blow my own trumpet too much here―
CE: We’re here to blow your trumpet.
TR: Easy. We’ll see where it goes.
(Everyone laughs heartily like pals)
FT: The road from punk rock to like acoustic, singer-songwriter stuff was much less well traveled in 2005. I mean Chuck [Ragan] was doing it, Tim [Barry] was doing it as well, but like, it’s a bit of a thing now in a way that it wasn’t back then. So when I told my friends, “Hey I’m gonna do this like, folk project,” I got laughed out of several offices of people who’d worked with my old band and I just, you know, looked them up and say, “Hey, are you interested in my new project?” And they’re like “There’s the fucking door you idiot.” That specific person—the next time I saw her was just before we took the stage two down from headliner at Reading Festival, and she had the decency to be like, “I’m a fucking idiot.” I sort of remember feeling like I had a plan and everyone else thought I was crazy. Now, looking back, I feel like I was out of my fucking mind and everybody else thinks that I must have had a plan, and it’s kind of flipped.
TR: Don’t you have to be out of your fucking mind to do something like that?
FT: The one thing that I’m kind of proud of is that I took what was kind of a completely nonsensical, certainly non-commercial decision—you know, Million Dead’s last show in London we played to 900 people, my first solo show in London which was about two weeks later I played to two people. It’s definitely a thing I did because I was driven by art, should we say, and I feel quite good about that. Do you know what I mean? You know, it was sincere, I guess is what I was trying to say.
CE: That comes through in the music for sure.
FT: The thing―Fuck, I was in my early-20’s so I could do anything, I was invincible. That’s the nature of being in your early-20’s, and so I look at some of the touring schedules from back then, I’m just like, “Oh my god.”
CE: [Travis] keeps asking me, “How is this man still alive?”
FT: I’m 37 now and if we do―today’s the fourth show in a row without a day off and we’re all pretty fucked. In 2007 we used to do 20, 30 shows in a row without a day off. And I look back at that now and I have no idea how we used to do that. And I used to drink more then as well, like I’d be shitfaced every night, I’d be selling my own merch before and after the show, all this shit.
CE: That’s crazy too, such a personal touch on everything.
FT: I mean it was cool but it was because I couldn’t afford a merch person, (laughs) do you know what I mean?
CE: (Laughs) Out of necessity, but still very cool.
FT: You know, it was formative for me, moving from being in one kind of part of the music world to another one. It was certainly like the defining act of my adult life, I would say.
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CE: Is there a specific moment where you’re like ‘Okay, this is feasible, this is something I could do for the rest of my life and sustain me,’ or has there been kind of a reach?
FT: Well see now you’re talking about the graph—and I know this is terrible radio (laughs)—I have a graph. If you have a graph where the Y axis is success and the X axis is time, every band’s career kind of goes up and peaks a bit, and then it comes down, and then it levels out somewhere. Now the question is: Does it level out above or below the line that’s called ‘Have to Have a Day Job?’ Every musician in the world wonders about that. I try and be healthily skeptical, and I think pessimists are rarely disappointed. But you know, I’m just about, maybe, on the edge of conceding that perhaps I might be able to do this for the rest of my life. But I’m not certain about that by any stretch of the imagination.
CE: Hey I’ll keep buying.
FT: I hope so! I sincerely fuckin hope so; this is an awesome way to exist. But like, you know, fuck man—I’ve got friends in bands who, I remember them selling 5,000 tickets in London, and they can’t get arrested these days, you know? It happens. So I don’t know, we’ll see. I’ve entered a weird period in my life lately. Speaking completely frankly, it’s been quite surprising but in a nice way. In the last year or two, there are kind of younger punk bands coming through who treat me like an elder statesman, in a way that I wasn’t expecting at all. Like I’m headlining a festival in Camden, in London next month called Camden Rocks—which happens to be booked by a friend of mine, but anyway I’m headlining it—and there’s like a bazillion bands playing. It’s kind of like a SXSW kind of vibe. And I’ve just been inundated with messages from bands being like, “Just really honored to be on a bill with you man.” And I’m like “What? Who the fuck are you talking about, shut up!” (Laughs) But in a way though, I think it’s kind of nice, do you know what I mean? Like, and it is true, I mean, you know, people who are 20 now—I was touring before they were born, do you know what I mean? That’s kinda cool. Certainly that’s an argument winner, is what that is. You wanna have a discussion about what punk rock is, motherfucker? I toured before [GPS]! I fuckin’ toured before mobile phones and SATNAV and it was a pain in the ass. So yeah, it is kind of cool to be able to say that.
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CE: Did you ever have to work a day job? It seems like you just jumped from one band to the next and kept going.
FT: So with Million Dead, we had this moment in time; I mean, everybody who’s in a band, I’m sure you guys know what I’m talking about—or not even in a band, any sort of creative thing—you have the moment where you have to take the jump. You’re balancing it with a day job and you’re kind of like: I’m gonna try and do it full time and hope that the more hours of the day will bring in enough income to compensate the regular income, paycheck from my actual job. And it’s a leap, and it’s scary, and it doesn’t always work, and all the rest of it. I kind of slightly cheated on that in about 2004 or so when Million Dead was going into ascent by essentially selling everything I owned and living on my friends’ sofas. And I was like, [I] don’t have to pay rent or bills! It certainly fuckin’ makes the outgoings…less. Do you know what I mean? So I did that, but then the thing that was fucked is I did that and then a year later Million Dead broke up, and I was like, “Motherfucker.” So part of the motivation of the level of touring I did in the early days is ‘cause I didn’t actually have anywhere to go when I wasn’t on tour. And at least if you played a show, someone’s gonna fuckin’ put you up, do you know what I mean?
TR: I love your bit in your book, about, ‘Yeah of course every musician on tour—dudes are dudes, they’re trying to get laid, but also, like—’
FT: That’s a bed.
TR: There aren’t five other guys in that room.
FT: Yeah, and there’s a fuckin’ pillow, and a mattress, and a duvet, and everything. Yeah completely, it’s the fuckin’ truth. But yeah, so I did a whole shitload of crappy jobs around then. I essentially decided to become a vagrant; it kind of worked for a while, and then I got my own place in 2012, was the next time I had my own place.
CE: Three cheers for that.
FT: That’s a good...how long was that? That’s eight years without living anywhere.
CE: Hey, you’re not on someone else’s sofa when you don’t have to be, that’s nice.
FT: By the way, though, I have to say, I had a very odd moment in my life in 2012 when I sort of mentioned in a tweet or an interview or whatever, once or twice, that I had a place. And there was a small but significant portion of people who were like outraged that I now lived somewhere
CE: How dare you!
FT: I was like, “Fuck you man! I’m allowed to have a room somewhere.”
TR: If that’s your opinion of punk rock—like, “Oh wait he lives somewhere? Never mind.”
FT: Yeah, dude—first time I ever got called a sellout, it was awesome. Million Dead, we used to rehearse in this kinda like borderline squat rehearsal studio; it was a complete shithole. And we reached the point where we had like a tour with an advert in Kerrang! Magazine and we had support acts, and you know, the shows were selling out, it was like a 400 people a show kind of thing. And we got a van for that tour—we’d done a bunch of touring beforehand, but for that tour we got a splitter van, as in a van that has, ya know, an equipment section and then seats, with a DVD player and shit. And as that van pulled up to pick us up, the dude who owned the place was like, “You think you’re fuckin’ Motley Crue?” And we were like wait, what? And it turns out seats in a van constitutes selling out. And what was so great about that is I remember thinking to myself, “Oh that wasn’t that bad!” Do you know what I mean?
CE: The most painless sellout ever.
FT: Yeah! Cool! Sweet! Now I can not think about it. I can now not ever fucking think about that stupid expression ever again as long as I fucking live.
CE: I think that’s probably the most punk rock way to do it.
FT: Well apparently back pain is punk rock or something, cause you’ve gotta sit on a fucking Ampeg cab while you drive up and down the country, but whatever.
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CE: Do you have any survival tips for the road?
FT: My buddy Jimmy P., who tour manages Lucero, is one of my very dearest friends and taught me an awful lot about touring in the early days. And one of the main things he taught me is he said, “When you wake up in the morning, and before you go to bed at night, drink a bottle of water.”
TR: See I do that anyway, but…
FT: I didn’t. I didn’t.
CE: I text [Travis] all the time: Did you drink any water lately?
FT: Yeah, it’s really—it’s just like, try to eat some vegetables every day…I mean there’s other shit, like I mean, from the early-early days. I can show you how to make a pillow out of a hoodie and a pair of shoes pretty easily, do you know what I mean? And like, that was kind of necessary information. I guess the main thing is just that like—this is again, getting slightly heavier than the question that you’re asking.
CE: That’s okay.
TR: Perfect.
FT: I’ve been getting into a lot of kind of conversations in the last few years about mental health and the music industry, which I think is a healthy thing to do ‘cause it’s a certain topic that we should be more open in discussing.
TR: That’s kind of the whole point.
FT: Yeah. When I think back to my early touring years, the thing that really stands out to me is that there were zero adults in the room; everybody was like under 25 and everybody treated it like an endless bachelor party. Ya know, I came through it, and like there was a bit of that bravado about like ‘Can he hack it?’ and all the rest of it. But the bottom line is I saw a bunch of people who were nice people and good musicians who got pretty mentally chewed up by three or four years of trying to be touring musicians, because no one told them it doesn’t have to be a bachelor party 24 hours a day. You can also just go to bed, do you know what I mean? You don’t have to drink a fuckin’ bottle of whiskey.
CE: There doesn’t have to be an after-party.
FT: Yeah, and I kinda wish that there’d been a little bit more of people saying that when I was a kid, and it’s now a thing that I do try and say to younger bands is like, it’s okay. The reason you’re on tour is to play music; everything else is secondary to that. You know? And there’s one thing I like about touring, is there’s a real discipline imposed on you by the fact that regardless of anything else I do in the other 22 hours of the day, I have to go on stage at 9:15 tonight and be good. And everything else is focused on that, and that’s really—it’s kind of disciplining in a way that I really appreciate.
CE: Our audience is pretty much a bunch of people from the island here that are in local bands and whatnot, so it’s less about, like, ‘Look at the celebrity!’ And more like, ‘Look! You’re all trying to do the same thing, don’t wear yourself out!’
FT: Right, I mean that’s it. You can just, like, brutalize yourself very quickly, and it’s not pretty.
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CE: So on Be More Kind, which I love, the tone change: Was that about where you are in life? Because in my opinion politically, it hits a lot more heavier topics, but you still are so positive and reassuring to everybody.
FT: Well the positivity thing is a funny thing in the sense that I actually think Be More Kind is a pretty negative record in that way but apparently I’m an incorrigible optimist and I can’t help myself (laughs) so who knows? I wanted to take some experiments, some left-hand turns, make some noises I haven’t made before, say some things that I haven’t said before. It never ceases to amaze me, the fact that people haven’t noticed that I am trying to do slightly different things with every record I do. I did England Keep My Bones, and then the next record didn’t have any songs about England on it and everyone was like, [exaggeratedly] “What the fuck?!” and I’m like “I know, I did that.” The next record—which is finished by the way, and coming out in August; that’s also an exclusive I think (nervous laughs)…Fuck—
TR: Don’t worry, my phone’s probably dead anyway.
FT: (Laughs) Okay. But it’s radically, radically different to Be More Kind, and indeed everything else we’ve ever done. And the next record after that will be the same again, and like fuck man, get with the program!
CE: I like that it’s all different, it doesn’t all sound the same. There’s progress, it still sounds like you, but it’s a different chapter.
FT: There is no reason for me to remake Love, Ire & Song over and over again. I love that record, I’m very proud of that record and, to be blunt, we still play a shitload of songs from it every night because people want to hear them. But that’s the point, I don’t need to write another song that sounds like “Photosynthesis” cause I’ve already got “Photosynthesis” in my arsenal.
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CE: Here’s a fun one: What’s been your favorite meal on tour so far?
FT: That’s a good question. I’m not sure if this is objective, but I had a really nice meal tonight at a place called Al Marco’s, which is an Italian restaurant about five minutes’ walk from here. And it was very nice.
CE: If you ever need any recommendations for the area, I was going to send you over to MB Ramen, which is an old school hip-hop themed ramen place.
FT: Awesome. Italian food is like my weakness in life.
CE: My last name’s Padeletti, it comes with the territory.
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CE: Do you ever have any trouble being vulnerable with your music? Do you shelf things and wait until it’s the right time to release?
FT: That’s a good question. When I’m writing and recording I try very, very hard not in any way to consider anyone else’s opinion other than my own. Which, to me, to be blunt, is the definition of selling out anyway, if we’re gonna go back to that. But then, of course, there’s the moment when you put it out into the world. Tape Deck Heart was a very difficult record for me to put out because there were songs on there that are unkind. Which is something that I struggle with. And it’s pretty eviscerating, that record, in terms of my opinion of myself on it—not in a good place when I wrote that record—and then it was the biggest record I put out! So that’s weird (laughs).
CE: ‘Cause you’re helping the rest of us get through that period of ‘I suck.’
FT: Yeah, there can be days. I mean, there are some days when I stand on stage and play “Plain Sailing Weather” and you’ve got a thousand people singing back lyrics about how I’m a prick, and it’s kind of like, are you agreeing with me? Or are you sympathizing with me?
CE: For the record when I’m singing along, it’s not about you.
FT: Right, exactly. Which is what I hope is the case, but you’re never quite sure. You’re just like, don’t get too enthusiastic about this. Do you know what I mean? Other than that, it’s a funny thing—going back to everything, talking about being successful and all the rest of it—one of the things I do struggle with is[…]there are days when I’m not really in the mood for hanging out with people. And I don’t wanna be that dude, who just, you meet somebody and you have a bad experience with a musician you really like. And you’ve gotta remind yourself that everyone has bad days, do you know what I mean? And I try really hard not to snap at people or whatever, but there are definitely days when it’s like I’m walking down the street [around] lunch time and someone’s like, “Oh, that’s Frank Turner!” and I’m just like please, just—I’m not in the fucking mood, I’ve just had an argument with my missus, or I’m fuckin’ tired, or, in fact—two days ago it was the anniversary of Scott Hutchison’s death. Which was…I really didn’t wanna talk to anyone that day and ya know, someone’s like “Ay buddy, woo! Come to the show!” And I’m like, “Yeah, thanks! Do you mind if I just go over there and don’t talk to you for a bit?” And it’s not ‘cause I think they’re a dick or anything.
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CE: I noticed you bring up a lot of Queen in your books. If you had to pick one song—the catalog still exists but you can only listen to one song for the rest of your life—what would it be?
FT: (Without hesitation) “Somebody to Love.”
CE: Yeah?
FT: Yup. (Laughs)
CE: Mine is “One Vision,” and you noticed the end of that?
FT: Yeah, “Fried chicken.”
CE: Yes, thank you for knowing it, because I’ve argued with so many people over the years. That’s what they say!
FT: I am a big Queen fan. Freddy’s right there (points to tattoo).
CE: That’s amazing, and you’re the only person I’ve come across that knows that about the end of it. Everyone’s like “What are you talking about?” No really it’s a thing, I’m not crazy! Eh, I might be.
FT: (Laughs) I think they’re just one of the most remarkable bands. You know they’re the only band in history where all four members have written a number one single? That’s not true of the Beatles, not true of the Rolling Stones. All four of them have written a number one single. And no other band has done that.
CE: They’ve got a wonderful catalog.
FT: I definitely—I’m comfortable with being a greatest hits fan with them. Do you know what I mean? There’s a lot of dross on some of their records. But nevertheless, they’re incredible.
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CE: How did the Sleeping Souls get their name? I know it was a thing that they were unnamed for a while.
FT: I wanted them to have a name because I wanted it to be clear to people it was the same people every day. It’s a lyric from “I Am Disappeared” and we were finishing off that record. It was kind of interesting because I sort of let them pick a name…I didn’t want to, like, foist that on them. I don’t know, it was a weird thing. I wanted to call them the 1970s because they were all born in the ‘70s and I was born in the ‘80s. So Frank Turner and the 1970s. They were just like, “Fuck you man!” So that didn’t work. I had a few ideas but in the end I was like you guys sort it out. And it’s a lyric from “I Am Disappeared” and they picked it and I was like, “Yeah, that’s cool.”
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CE: After all the touring with hardcore punk and otherwise, do you have any suggestions for mohawk upkeep?
FT: (Laughs) I had a mohawk for about a week when I was a kid. My parents had gone away on holiday, I was like 14.
TR: (In a playfully sarcastic stoner voice) Didn’t you like, write a song about that?
FT: I did, yeah! No, but my dad kicked me out of the house when he got home from that holiday, and he was fucking furious with me. In fairness it was shit; it was wonky for a start, cause my mate was shitfaced when he did it. And it didn’t look good on me. You [Travis] look great, I looked fucking awful. I have shaved mohawks on other people, more often in my life. It’s been a while.
CE: Any suggestions for how to get everything maintained, or is it just like, ‘Good luck!’
TR: Do you remember what you would use to put it up or anything?
FT: I’m not sure that I did do masses of that kinda shit to be honest with you. It was a long summer where I was just kind of crashing at my friend’s house and getting pissed, and I think I just had the sides of my head shaved. I have to say, when you see someone who’s got like the gigantic liberty spikes and they’re like pristine, it’s a bit like—I’m not sure how punk the amount of preparation that takes is.
CE: That’s a lot of, alright, this is what we’re doing today!
FT: It’s just like, I’m going out to the store to get some milk, I’ll be two hours. Do you know what I mean?
TR: If it takes more than ten minutes to do, it’s like—you have a lot of time to think about how punk rock you are when you’re doing that.
FT: Like how do you get in the car?
CE: [Travis] was talking about that earlier.
TR: That was [me in my] my high school days, when I was like 14.
CE: You haven’t gotten any shorter since then.
FT: Fair enough.
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CE: If you had to boil down one song for new fans, like ‘Check this out and you’ll kinda get it’?
FT: That’s a good question. Probably I would choose “Get Better.” That song is very, very important to me simply because before I wrote the song I really, really tried to empty my mind, and I wanted to write one song that just said what I had to say. Not necessarily for all time, but in that moment in my life. And I do that from time to time, but just in that particular instance it just went well. Do you know what I mean? I just feel like that song hits its mark, you know? And it’s simple, which I really like, it’s a really simple song.
CE: I think the most simple songs speak the most.
FT: Yeah, you know it’s funny, I have actually spent the last two or three records being obsessed by simplicity as a concept and I’m now at a point in my life where I’m kind of—my pendulum’s swinging the other way, and I’m a bit more interested in writing more complicated shit. Whatever. I really like that song and I think it’s a reasonable manifesto for who I am and what I’m trying to do.